guildwarsfandomcom-20200222-history
User talk:Hhhippo/BuildArchive/:R/N Touch Ranger/Archive 1
__TOC__ Discussion Wouldn't a running skill be useful to counter a kiting enemy? None of them a are perfect, Escape uses an elite, Dodge would be good because you've got points in Expertise but ends when you attack and Storm Chaser is in the Wilderness Survival attribute. But there's some spare attribute points, you could put 2 points in it leaving the attribute point spend as it is. This would give 10 secs of Storm Chaser. 14 Expertise reduces it to an energy cost of just 4 and two elemental damage hits gives you that back anyway. I haven't played this build myself so this is just theory but having all touch range attacks and no running skill seems like a major flaw to me. --Xasxas256 19:16, 19 April 2006 (CDT) :Stabber has gone an edited the article on me as I wrote the above comment so there's now just a single spare attribute point so it would only be 9 seconds of Storm Chaser, but I'd still say it's a useful variation.--Xasxas256 19:19, 19 April 2006 (CDT) ::Dodge would be best because it only ends when you attack. When do you actually attack in this build? Its all spell casting. | Chuiu 19:21, 19 April 2006 (CDT) :#Yes, kiting is a problem, but there are some mitigating factors, mainly that the way the game treats "touch" range is a bit strange. You can trigger your "touch" skill from half an aggro circle away as long as you started it when your target was close. What this means is that everyone always flees when they see a touch ranger coming their way -- even more than they flee from warriors. This can be a great shutdown at times. :#Dodge is a fine suggestion because none of the touch skills are attacks. I'll add it to the article now. :#Note to Chuiu above -- the touches are not spells, which is entirely the point of using a ranger primary. — Stabber (talk) 19:25, 19 April 2006 (CDT) Oh well good! As a bonus Dodge costs 5 energy so your attribute point spend change works for it too. Actually on that, I wonder if in the 14/13 Expertise vs 10/8 Death Magic question now favours more Expertise. Only Vile Touch is affected by the increase in Death Magic, it does 6 damage more but the draw back of having less Expersise is the Vile Touch now costs 1 more energy, Dodge lasts 1 second less and Whirling Defence lasts 1 second less and does 1 less damage. Whaddya think? On a totally different topic, could we also suggest weapons to use. This build I would imagine goes against the norm, despite being a Ranger you don't carry a bow. Would Blood Magic weapons be best? Deadly Cesta from Karl Jakobs / Radamon with a Grim Cesta from Volsung Stoneketil OR the Bone Staff from Merin Trollsbane / John Verado Are these the best items to use? Also if going with a staff would it be best to add an max insightful head and fortitude wrapping to the staff if they're avaliable? Should we mention the Blood Magic unique items?: Gordac's Hook Blood with Gordac's Needle OR Fleshweaver I also didn't think Brandon Harlin's +15 energy -1 energy regen Grim Cesta would be good but I could be wrong, and I suppose it could be useful to swap in when you just need to get one or two more skills off when you've got low energy. --Xasxas256 20:48, 19 April 2006 (CDT) Variations Tjoneil's Variation Personally, I think Vile Touch is not a good idea since it requires you to waste points in Death Magic. Besides, Vampiric Touch and Touch of Agony have very fast recharge times, so Vile Touch is really unnecessary. Also, the only healing spell you have here is Vampiric Touch, which is not nearly enough, especially considering that you have three sacrificing skills. One thing that I've tried before that works pretty well is to bring Signet of Agony and Melandru's Resilience. That combo will give you a quick and easy +1 pip to energy regeneration for up to 21 seconds (depending on how many points you commit to Wilderness Survival). That +1 pip is basically equivalent to what Offering of Blood will give you, but more importantly, if you get hit with many more conditions, you will gain quite a few pips of health and energy regeneration. It's simply a much much better way to manage energy, and it will heal you to boot. However, since Melandru's Resilience is a stance, you can't really use other defensive stances. So, that means you probably should take Throw Dirt instead of Whirling Defense. And if you're going to put points into Wilderness Survival, then I would just go ahead and take either Barbed Trap, Troll Unguent, or one of the several useful spirits in that line instead of Demonic Flesh, and at this point, Storm Chaser is a good alternative to Dodge. Of course, it might be nifty to bring Distracting Shot and a secondary bow, or Apply Poison and a secondary sword or axe instead for those occasions where it would be really handy. Here is the summation of some of the recommendations I have just laid out: Expertise 10+3 = 13 Wilderness Survival 10+1+1 = 12 Blood Magic 11 --Tjoneil 00:41, 20 April 2006 (CDT) :You are suggesting a substantially different build. Please name it something sensible and contribute it as a separate build article. — Stabber 00:55, 20 April 2006 (CDT) ::I'd say that could be a good build but nevertheless it's a totally different build, I wouldn't call it a variation, it's a different build with a similar theme. Excluding the Rez Sig; 5 of the 7 skills are different and the attribute point spend is different too. Because you're now laying traps and occasionally swapping to a bow, I'd also say the tactics/playing style is different too. Perhaps you could create a new article and call the build a R/N Touching, Trapping, Distracting, Resisting Ranger of Agony. Or perhaps not, too long? --Xasxas256 01:02, 20 April 2006 (CDT) :::Stabber you're killing me on this article! Edit conflict this time! So I didn't get to read the last bit Please name it something sensible well forget R/N Touching, Trapping, Distracting, Resisting Ranger of Agony (although it has a nice ring to it, say it aloud a few times) then. Although it's not that un-sensible, I mean it's accurate and descriptive...Next time if you're going to edit conflict me at least do it you're repling to a post of mine :P A staff/wand is the right option for this build yeah? Ah I'm going home, I'll add it in then. --Xasxas256 01:07, 20 April 2006 (CDT) ::I've taken the liberty of Melandru's Toucher|doing it myself. The name could be improved, perhaps. — Stabber 01:23, 20 April 2006 (CDT) :::Well, I wasn't intending to suggest an entirely new build, I just wanted to throw some ideas out there that might make this build more sensible. Really, the play-styles of these two builds are nearly identical, because they're still both focused around touching for doing damamge. It's just that one build uses OoB for energy managent and the other uses Melandru's Resilience, and since that requires different attribute allocations, you have to take a few different skills. The Barbed Trap and Distracting Shot ideas were more for variety of options, but they aren't necessary. --Tjoneil 10:10, 20 April 2006 (CDT) I think "Resilience Toucher" sounds nice Cheers12 20:11, 24 May 2006 (CDT) Krin's Variation I've tested this for a long time, and found that this is the most efficient template. Escape allows a movement bonus to chase foes such as monks, while it provides a 75% chance to block. Plague touch is necessary for conditions, and throw dirt adds in even more defense against warriors and rangers. Stats *Expertise: (12+3+1) *Blood Magic: (12) --Krin 12:44, 11 May 2006 (CDT) :Plague Touch is definately an improvement on Demonic Flesh (so much so that I believe the main article should be updated asap), but don't you run into energy trouble with no OoB? --Bishop (rap| ) 13:04, 12 May 2006 (CDT) Greven's Variation I'd been meaning to make an article but I got caught up in DDO... Well, here's my Touch Ranger build, tried and true in PvP since around August last year: Stats: *Expertise: (10+3+1) *Blood Magic: (12) *Wilderness Survival: (8+1) Notes: *Troll Unguent may be slow to activate, but it greatly increases survivability. *Storm Chaser is great for chasing runners, but can also be a source of energy. *Strip Enchantment gives you a quick boost of about 100 health, and removes some annoying enchantment (like Illusionary Weaponry). Slight variations of this include swapping out Storm Chaser for Whirling Defense makes this build effective at PvE as well. Very handy for taking out hard targets with high armor, like Wurms and bosses. An older variation removes Strip Enchantment, and adds Vile Touch from Death Magic. This decreases Blood Magic and Expertise by one point each, and raises Death Magic to 8. However, this variation was much less survivable...even if it succeeded in higher damage per second. With Factions, though, it could simply be replaced by Vampiric Bite with no need to change the stats from above. - Greven 23:03, 12 May 2006 (CDT) :Oh one thing I forgot to mention -- I use this build with a 20%recharge/20%cast, max damage / energy Blood staff. Added to that are a +5 armor wrap and +5 armor head. This gives me an additional 10 armor which does help more than you might think. I also use Druid's Armor, for as much energy as I can. - Greven 23:18, 12 May 2006 (CDT) Ender A's Variation I first discovered Touch Ranger as an annoyance in the Random Arenas. So, to find out what annoyed it, I played it for a while. I tried to create the best build I could, starting with the featured one (Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch, Offering of Blood, Throw Dirt, Whirling Defense, Dodge, Plague Touch, and Resurrection Signet.) I began by analyzing the build, and the variations listed below, and after looking through the list of Blood Magic skills, thought that Signet of Agony was a good replacement for Throw Dirt, as it also incorporates another combination: a Barbed bow, Signet of Agony, and Plague Touch. (44 seconds of bleeding on the touched opponent, with a little bit of extra PBAoE.) In my opinion, Touch Ranger is - relative to other builds and arenas - most effective in Random Arena's, so that's where I tested it. So, my tested build was Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch, Offering of Blood, Signet of Agony, Whirling Defense, Dodge, Plague Touch, and Resurrection Signet. From my experience, it seemed quite effective. The cons: *Having a Mesmer that spammed Diversion on me was a hindrance - but didn't necessarily stop me. *Having multiple enemy Monks was exceedingly annoying. If my team was unable to coordinate it's offense to kill a Monk (or just simply didn't have the capability,) then we wouldn't be able to win. *I didn't have an interrupt. This was a severe lacking of the build I used. On second thought, that would be my next wish for the build - add an interrupt. The pros: *Almost anyone that tried to defeat me in melee combat quickly realized it was a losing battle - even without my having used Whirling Defense. I often forgot that I had it, since I rarely needed it. *It was fun to watch people think they were escaping - Assassin's especially - when they had 44 seconds of Bleeding on them. Usually I would just change targets. Often they would die a few seconds later to Bleeding. I don't care if they can run away, I'm winning the battle. *It's very powerful. Most defensive skills are useless. People would try to Blind me, Backfire me, Spiteful Spirit me, and use Reversal of Fortune, yet none of them stopped me. Misc: *Having too many enemies focusing on me without recieving support from my team usually killed me, presuming they had some way of preventing my escape (with Dodge.) I don't expect a single build to be able to always defeat a competent and coordinating team on my own, so this is negligible. This is the situation where I should rely on my teammates. More people going after me is less attacking my allies. Nonetheless, it is a very durable build - in a 2v4 (with a Monk ally,) we managed to hold out for several minutes. After that experience, the build I would recommend would be: With the following attributes: *Expertise: 16 (12+1+3) *Blood Magic: 12 *Marksmanship: 4 (3+1) And the following equipment: (For PvP characters. PvE characters should use the functional equivalent.) *Hunter's Mask *Druid's Armor *Barbed Recurve Bow of Fortitude (A +Armor Grip would work too. It might even be superior, but I'm unsure. I just generally choose Fortitude.) *Truncheon (Req 9 Blood) (20% 1/2 Blood Magic recharge) (Energy +5 >50% hp) *Idol (Energy +12 Req 9 Blood) (20% 1/2 Blood Magic recharge) (Health +30) *Idol (Energy +12 Req 9 Blood) (Energy +15) (Energy Regen -1) (Health +30) How to play: *Whenever possible, wield the Bow. First, it doesn't give away that you're a Touch Ranger like a Truncheon does. Second, you can interrupt with Distracting Shot at any moment. Third, it double increases the bleeding duration using Signet of Agony and Plague Touch. (See Barbed.) *Usual RA guidelines apply. (i.e.: Try to take down Monks first. Resurrect ASAP. Coordinate the offense. Interrupt anything dangerous - but wait until they're almost done, so that they waste more time. Kite when overwhelming melee is directed at you. Don't sacrifice health when it's all you have. Etc.) *If they try to run away from you (as will often happen,) weigh your options. If they have no method of curing Bleeding - effectively meaning they aren't a Monk - then I would recommend using Signet of Agony, Dodge, and Plague Touch and then letting them run away all they want. If they're a Monk, it's a tough decision. Against Monks, (and any spellcaster casting annoying spells) don't forget you have Distracting Shot. *If a solo melee is trying to kill you, you can usually overwhelm them. Your vampiric skills steal approximately 130 life every 3 seconds, which is both healing you and hurting them. That's where this build started - it's good at melee. Worst case scenario is a full adrenaline melee spike, but often you will survive that. *Beyond Monks, your biggest threat are the Mesmers (presuming Mesmer's aren't in fact a bigger threat.) Diversion spam will slowly shut you down - so use Distracting Shot on it. At least they'll need to use whatever defensive skill they brought - like Distortion - to keep themselves from being interrupted. If they didn't bring one, then you're home free. *If somehow you end up with a harmful condition, then just Plague Touch it to someone else. Dazed? Give it to their monk. Blind? Give it to their warrior. Crippled? Give it to anyone kiting or being kited. Deep Wound? Give it to your kill target. Bleeding? Same as always. *Save Dodge for when they really don't want you to use it. You can only use it ~1/3 of the time. *Usually you don't want to bother attacking, unless it's to lure them in to closer range. *If you're having a Plague Touch war with Bleeding, it's going to have a ridiculous duration. Consider passing it on to someone that can't get rid of it. Bleeding... forever! *'Use the multiple weapon sets!' The bow is for primary usage, the Truncheon and the first Idol are for when you need a boost of energy (generally for either Offering of Blood - which then has a chance to decrease it's recharge time - or a vampiric skill,) and the Truncheon with the second Idol are for when you desparately need energy immediately and don't care about the consequences. Swapping energy sets is also handy versus energy denial. --Ender A 09:08, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :To the anonymous person that mentioned that there aren't any Barbed Bow Strings, click either of those links for a list of barbed items, and a list of bow strings respectively.--Ender A 04:25, 12 June 2006 (CDT) Build stubs clean up Check the Build stubs talk page for more info about the clean up. *'Unstub:' ** Skuld common build, works well (needs vamp bite) ** Xeeron (if someone checks the spelling) ** Bishop lethal. Cheap. And annoying as hell. ** Nilles Cool build. Deadly against Assassins and Warriors. :) ** -- This pwns on Random Arenas and I love using it. I sense a balance update in near future. ;P *'Keep:' *'Delete:' Touch nerf? Argh! These are so powerful now there are 2 vampiric touches, im going to start packing scourge sacrifice! Skuld 16:43, 7 May 2006 (CDT) :Diversion + E-Surge + E-Burn. Or just Malaise. Preferably after they've been snared. Their energy is their biggest weakness. F G 16:56, 7 May 2006 (CDT) ::Wither is a great counter. I beat a Touch Ranger and Ritualist 2v1 using nothing but Wither, Drain Enchantment, Ether Feast, and Parasitic Bond. --68.47.61.102 23:54, 13 May 2006 (CDT) :::Binding Chains will really piss a touch ranger off. ::::No it wont. Touch rangers don't rely on attacks, but skills. - Greven 01:34, 17 May 2006 (CDT) :::::Well, it is pretty hard to touch people if you're moving at 10% speed. Unless they come for hugs themselves, that is. --Bishop (rap| ) 07:42, 17 May 2006 (CDT) Touch of Agony This is useless, the 2 vampirics mean you are always attacking as apposed to vamp+agony, agony works with 1 vamp touch but is useless with 2 Skuld 15:11, 12 May 2006 (CDT) :Negative. The key to Touch of Agony is it's extremely low energy cost. With a 13 or higher Expertise, it costs a mere 2 energy, and the sacrifice can be instantly healed by a follow up Vamp Touch or Vamp Bite. --Krin 21:13, 12 May 2006 (CDT) Major Rune? Why is the rune suggested a major? I think a superior expertise rune would better benefit this template, as a 16 Expertise would decrease the cost of Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite by one energy each, down from 6 to 5. The cost of 25 additional health wouldn't hurt this build much at all, since it is largely self-healing. --Krin 21:21, 12 May 2006 (CDT) :I went ahead and fixed that. Major runes rarely, if ever, make any sense. And certainly not here. --Bishop (rap| ) 21:40, 12 May 2006 (CDT) ::Major Runes currently only reduce health by 35 and not 50. But if you're packing Touch of Agony or Wallow's Bite, the lower health is actually a benefit. Usage The Useage part of the article needs to be updated to match the skill bar, and it seems to me that its not so much a touch ranger anymore, but whatever. Renegade of Funk 10:10, 17 May 2006 (CDT) Self Respect. Anybody who thinks the Expertise boon is valid because the touching skills are listed as "Skill" and not "Spell" should consider that they don't say "Attack Skill". Other attacking skills list the attack type "Bow Attack" etc. Expertise says "Attack Skills" Then consider that Pacifism actually works on a Bow Attack, but does not work on a Vampiric Attack. Nor does blind. The whole thing is a bug, and you need to make sure that you are comfortable with it before using it. However considering how many people were comfortable with IWAY, which again, was a bug (attack speed bonus stacking), I suspect that considering R/N Touch Ranger requires so little brain power it's going to become the next big thing. Unfortunately for the brainless masses, Touch Ranging is even easier to counter than IWAY. - —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 81.138.247.170 (talk • ) 02:27, 19 May 2006. :Wow, you sound bitter. There's a lot of skills out there; consider Critical Eye and Expunge Enchantments of the Assassin. Expertise does NOT say that it reduces just "attack skills" as you seem to be implying. There's no bug at all, it's been around since the beginning of the game and hasn't been changed. Touch Rangers have been around at *least* since August of 2005, because I came up with the idea independantly at that time (and it could have been made earlier, but hey). Touch Ranger requires little brainpower? Um, what then does? You have to be careful when you use Offering of Blood, and (well before Factions) if you have Touch of Agony in the mix you might want to be a bit careful there. I will cease invalidating your statements here, as your attitude suggests you simply were defeated by one and now have an irrational hatred of the build. - Greven 03:38, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::Somebody's a fan. ::I am amazed at how stupidly popular this build has become. In random arenas it's not at all uncommon to have a party that has two or more in it. --aCynicalPie 04:06, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :::I'm probably one of the reasons the build is so popular now, as it was my near-exclusive Random Arena PvP build (listed above, not quite the same as the article). It's easy enough to counter, as I have well learned in my 7 months of playing my Touch Ranger, although I've only rarely seen people use something like it. As for this "stupidly popular" I've not seen it, but then I've been playing Factions' PvE instead of participating in PvP for the last two weeks. - Greven 15:29, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::Perhaps you should look at what Expertise says -In The Game- and not just on the wiki page to determine what Expertise actually says. Quite how the manufacturer's of this game are afforded so much benefit of the doubt I have no idea. They're not gods you know. They're just people, and they mess up as often as the rest of us. And they've messed up. But to correct it, they'll need to reassess exactly what is and what is not an attack and what is/not a skill/spell. And then they'll have to test all the changes, which will take forever. - —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 81.138.247.170 (talk • ) 03:27, 19 May 2006. :::The game says attack skills, preparations and traps, but this has never been precise. It has always been all skills that are not spells. By the way, the wiki transcribes the in-game text exactly in the Ranger page, and notes the observed deviation in a footnote. Speaking for myself, I think that if you cannot outsmart a touch ranger then you should simply give up PvP. 84.16.233.47 04:37, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :You posted that comment to the wrong site. You were perhaps looking for http://www.guildwarsguru.com, http://www.guild-hall.net, or http://www.gwonline.net. 85.25.136.135 03:54, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::It's fine to make comments on talk pages. It's part of the reason they exist - it stops it spreading to the real article. These builds are popular because they can be effective, and they're hard to counter if you are with an inexperienced or disorganised team. A suggestion, from the monks PoV: Kite in a circle around your team mates. Your anti-caster should be rupting/draining/shutting down the monk, and your warrior/s should be killing the mesmer then the ranger. Shandy 04:09, 19 May 2006 (CDT) Expertise works on NON-SPELLS Skuld 05:07, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::o k. So wouldn't it be cool if it was ACTUALLY REALLY and HONESTLY limited to "Attack skills, Preparations, and Traps" or the text or Expertise changed to "anything that's not a spell that we havn't got round to sorting out yet because it's a little bit hard". Still at least they got round to renaming Shells to chittin fragments, and that really annoying wall in TA assembly area that you could see underneath. That's what's really important. You'll probably find that they havn't included an Attacking data component in the skill assembly, so they wouldn't be able to make the distinction between an attacking skill and a non attacking skill, or indeed any sort of skill, so they can never make Expertise would correctly until they fix some low lying fundamental which not many people will want to tackle because it won't actually shift any more units off the shelf down at PC World. With cash prizes at stake, and iQ themselves discussing the validity of bug use on there own site, this sort of issue may one day come down to government legislation and an overall competitive video gaming board setting up. It's generally not allowed to cheat in competitive sports, and it'll be a good day when you're not allowed to in video games too. - —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 81.138.247.170 (talk • ) 04:25, 19 May 2006. :::I'm fairly sure it would be trivial to attach a attack skill/other skill property. And they almost certainly have already done so otherwise skills which target certain types of other skills would be needlessly complicated to make. Shandy 05:57, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :::You have fascinating opinions. Have you considered writing a blog? 195.169.149.213 05:29, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::::how the hell is it cheating using skills and lowering their cost with expertise? This is not a bug, Anet surely knows it is a new trend and they are not 'fixiing anything'. THey might balance the touch skills later, but until that this is a valid tactic. You do not need a lot of PvP knowledge to manage well with a touch ranger, that is true, but it is also pretty easy to counter. -- 05:38, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :::::I can try and make it clearer just for you. :::::Expertise affects "Attack skills, Preparations, and Traps" :::::It also affects things that are NONE of those. Jesus tap dancing christ, it is just PLAIN WRONG. If Vampiric Bite was an attacking skill you could PACIFY it, you could BLIND it, you could EMPATHY it. But you can do NONE of those things. It is a completely incorrectly implemented ranger primary, but only because there is too much innacuracy in skills that are labelled only as "Skill". Either that, OR, it is completely described wrong in the text of Expertise. :::::By all means call it "not cheating", that's not even the issue. Did I call this bit "Cheating"? No! I called it Self Respect. If you can satisfy yourself that using something that is clearly wrong is ok, then you could have a great career in politics or the military.- —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 81.138.247.170 (talk • ) 06:50, 19 May 2006. ::::::What we try ot say is that it is irrelevant what the description in the game says. A lot of things that reads in game is NOT 100% correct. It is clear that Expertise affects ALL non-spells. This is common knowledge and Anet has known it all the time. AS they have not changed it, it means it is intended. As long as it is like that it is perfectly fine to use it like that. Or should we stop using certain skills if we use certain attriubutes just because you think it is unfair? No. This is totally different than a clear expoloit like getting a pre-searing character to the guild hall through the observer mode. the only error in the game is the description of Expertise, not the effect. -- 07:58, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::::::Btw, do you disagree with the use of Expertise with Troll Unguent? Troll is not an attack skill, trap or preparation, but I think it should be affected by expertise. -- 08:00, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :::::::Additionally, any Stance, Nature Ritual, or binding Binding Ritual would cease to be reduced in cost by Expertise if this were changed. That would be quite a blow for Rangers if Expertise indeed were to be changed. - Greven 15:29, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :::::::"Expertise - For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all your non-Spells decreases by 4%." Taken directly out of the in-game description. Expertise does not just affect "Attack skills, Preparations, and Traps." I noticed the original post was made in May. Maybe Anet changed to in-game description since then. I am still confused why anon is raging about Expertise here. Anet does not read these talk pages. Anet barely even acknowledges GuildWiki's existence. Go gripe where there is a remote chance that someone who has some connection to Anet will read it. 145.18.59.41 08:29, 19 May 2006 (CDT) :Isn't this a perfect place to rant about the unfairness of the world when you get spanked my touch rangers every second math? i woul recommend playing some anti touch skills. :) -- 08:30, 19 May 2006 (CDT) ::Personally, I have never had any problems with Touch Rangers. But then again, that's only because I'm in love with the currently over-powered Wither skill ;) Seriously, once the energy is gone, Touch Rangers are toaste! Touch Rangers aren't over-powered, people are merely under-skilled. --Tjoneil 00:12, 20 May 2006 (CDT) :::It is not really that overpowered, but in the random arenas it has a great succedd chance as players do not know how to counter it. Remember that a touch ranger can use energy management suchas Offering of Blood. -- 03:58, 20 May 2006 (CDT) ::::Oh really? I challenge any Touch Ranger to a 1v1. Sure, you can keep your energy with Offering of Blood, but how are you going to get your health back with me running away while Wither does its work? Maybe you can use Storm Chaser or something, but then I have Imagined Burden. Touch Rangers are probably the best Warrior killers out there, but against a good Mesmer or Necro, they kind of suck. That's just my experience from the RA. --Tjoneil 22:46, 20 May 2006 (CDT) :::::I didn't say it wins 1vs1 and it definitely has no chance against a good mesmer. However in the random arenas you can and will win a lot if the rest of the team is not the crappiest ever. -- 03:15, 21 May 2006 (CDT) Deletion Vote I vote to delete this entire section, or more it somewhere else (like one of the users' talk pages). It serves no purpose here. 69.115.161.174 11:16, 13 August 2006 (CDT) :There is no reason to delete or move this. We don't just delete conversations and ther eis no better place to move this. -- (talk) 15:12, 13 August 2006 (CDT)